Oral History with Thomasina Briggs and Elnora Robinson

              Oral History with Thomasina Briggs and Elnora Robinson 
Interviewee: Briggs, Thomasina, 1929- and Robinson, Elnora, 1930- 
Interviewer: Benson, Sarah and Betts, Ellen 
Date: May 24, 2001 
Location: 1431 Assembly Street, Columbia, S.C. 29201 

  
BENSON: Today we’re with Mrs. Thomasina Briggs, a longtime resident of the Waverly Community here in Columbia, and with her sister, Ms. Elnora Robinson, who is going to give us a brief introduction to the history of Waverly Community and a little overview of their lives there. 
ROBINSON: My name is Elnora Robinson.  Thomasina Briggs is my sister.  She attended the public schools in Columbia, South Carolina, Waverly Elementary School, and Booker T. Washington High School.  Graduated.  Studied her pursuit at Howard University and a Master’s of Education Degree earned at the University of South Carolina.  She also studied at Columbia College and received a BS degree in Social Science and History from North Carolina A&T State University in Greensboro, North Carolina.  All right.  Now, the history of Waverly, as written by Thomasina Briggs, is an integral part of the history of Columbia, and the writer, Mrs. Briggs, expounded upon it.  Writes upon a living thing.  For while Waverly has given a fair share to the progress and development of this city, she has and continues to be prominent in this growth and progress.  According to neighborhood publication traditionally, Waverly started from Greene Street, in front of Valley Park, now known as Martin Luther King Park, between Heidt to Harden Street, across Gervais, between Harden to North Millwood to up to Taylor, between Two Notch Road and Harden Street, including parts of Barhamville Road.  The area known as Lyon Street, between Forest Drive and Millwood Avenue, then portions of Greene to Santee, known as Valley Park, was not included in the original neighborhood, but because it was so close by, folks called these areas the Waverly Section.  The community has undergone several changes to include the annexation of a parcel of land into the city limits in 1913.  The changing of the racial pattern from a mixture of white and black patrons to predominantly black, and a wide margin of homeowners.  Street name changes include North Millwood from Legare, Gervais Street from Burns Road, Greene Street from Carolina Avenue, McDuffie Avenue from Hampton Place, Millwood Avenue from Garners Ferry Road, and Hampton Street from Plain Street.  (break in tape)  -- both common [accounts?] may lie in the keen observation of many black sociologists and educators.  This is to say that the strength and diversity of black families lay in the parents’ access to an extended family.  More generally, the parents’ access to a personal social network for help and assistance in child rearing.  These families are recognizably embedded in a network of relatives, neighbors, friends, and so on.  Thus, children experience an exposure to a wide range of adult models, which enables them to incorporate a great variety of behaviors into their repertoire.  Although for some, black family life has been maligned and viewed as pathological with large numbers of children, female headed households, poverty stricken, and ineffective parenting.  Many black children, even those in poverty, turn out well.  Seemingly, traditional patterns of multiple mothering works to the child’s benefit.  Columbia has experienced a steady but slow growth as reflected in the census of 1890 through 1910.  Hennig, 1936.  The following entry from the diary of George Washington, recorded on his visit to Columbia, revealed, “Columbia is laid out upon a large scale.  It is now as uncleared woods, with very few houses in it, and those old wooden ones, the State House, which is also wood, but unfinished.”  Accordingly, Waverly may be presumed to have moved through a similar circumstance.  Hennig further cites that on May 4th, 1816, a writer of a weekly newspaper, the “Telescope,” published in Columbia, stated that the town contained 250 houses and a thousand inhabitants, white and black.  Much later, in June 1913, Hennig observed, “The suburb of Waverly, South Waverly were annexed to Columbia by an election of the people of the city and suburb, which was ratified by the city council of Columbia, June 13th, 1913.”  Thus, the Waverly Community, one of the oldest and most prominent areas for blacks, became a part of the city of Columbia.  As one native observed, “Waverly was to blacks what Shandon was to whites.”  Hennig states, “In the years immediately following the War Between the States, there was a spirit of great unrest in both master and slave in and around Columbia.  Realizing how much they were handicapped by not being able to read or write these Columbia Negroes vowed, if they were free, they would leave no stone unturned to get an education for themselves and their children.”  Among the first acts of freedom was to establish churches where they could praise God for deliverance from bondage.  Their thoughts were of school.  Edith Bowles (sp?), a long time resident of this city and a former schoolteacher, relates, “Success in life through self help and education is the key to all human endeavor.”  Allen University, a co-educational, African Methodist Episcopal school was founded in 1870 and had great influence on the people who lived in the Waverly District.  Benedict College, bordering the present day Waverly section on the north, was founded in 1870 by the American Baptist Home Mission Society.  In the early years, students from kindergarten through the grades were in attendance at Benedict.  Additionally, private church schooling for Waverly’s children included Presbyterian Episcopal Elementary School, a one-teacher school located on Liberty Hill,  Miss Rosa Johnson, teacher.  St. Anna’s Episcopal Church School, a two-teacher school, located on Liberty Hill, Miss Emily Johnson and Miss Etta Dinkins (sp?), teachers.  During this time and several ensuing years, married teachers were not allowed to teach school.  The first Waverly Elementary School was a one-teacher structure, which was located on Gervais Street between Heidt and Oak Street.  Mrs. Charlotte Jackson was principal.  Later, Waverly Elementary School was built on the Garner’s Ferry Road near Gervais Street, the site of Powell’s Garage.  Mrs. Charlotte Jackson was principal of this school.  Mrs. Annabelle Weston also served as principal.  Waverly School was incorporated and moved to Oak Street in 1927.  This school had formerly served whites.  The Waverly Annex School District 1 stands at the site today.  For many years, Booker T. Washington High School was the only public high school for blacks in Columbia.  The faculty and administration graduated some of the best scholars in the country.  If one can reflect back to the days of Principal J. Andrew Simmons, he could recall, “Thank God a man can grow.  He is not bound with earthward gaze to people on the ground for his beginnings may be but poor and low.  Thank God a man can grow.”   
BENSON: Thank you very much.  You have covered a good bit of information, like the boundaries of Waverly Community, and we’d like to maybe expand on different topics.  First of all, when did you move, Mrs. Briggs, to the Waverly area, or were you born in that area? 
BRIGGS: I was born on Walnut Street in the Waverly area.  Sometimes, I called myself a child of the ‘30s.  Now you can count up or down or across. (laughter)  I don’t give my age, but I really was born June 30th, 1929, and that’s the way I give the accurate age of myself.  But I am so grateful to the Master for allowing me to live to this point.  I have decided I’m not going to hide my age any more.  I’m just going to say, “Thank you, God,” and keep going.   
BENSON: Maybe we can talk about some of the activities as a child growing up that you remember, either that the children were involved in or the adults.  Just everyday life. 
BRIGGS: Well, the church was the focal point in our rearing.  We attended Zion Baptist Church, located on Washington Street, parallel to the Vietnam Memorial.  We went to Sunday School.  We walked from the Five Points area to Washington and Gadsden Street.  The South Carolina Electric and Gas Company had buses, but there were six of us. So we were encouraged to walk, and that we did.  My earliest recollection of anything was going to church, Sunday school, regular church service, BYTU, Youth Baptist Training Union, and then evening service.  We did not frequent the church in the afternoons, in the evenings often because of the distance.  We were taken to the Pentecostal Church off Gervais, and it still stands today.  We called it the Sanctified Church, and my aunt had joined it, and we used that one. It was a necessity.  Not necessarily a matter of choice.  We were forced.  Not forced, but we were expected to attend those services. In route to Zion, we would pass the Greenleaf Café, which was just off Main Street on Washington, and it was a restaurant for people who could afford to eat outside of the home.  We would then go to Counts Drugstore, operated by Dr. Counts, and he was a black doctor.  He would always questions us and ask us, “Are you spending your Sunday School money?”  And of course, we would say, “No,” (laughter) and move on down Washington Street. 
BENSON: He was on Washington Street? 
BRIGGS: Several black businesses were located on Washington Street at that time.  They’re now a parking lot, and some other buildings.  Dr. Counts Drugstore was there.  There was a Phoenix Café, and on down we passed the Capital Theater for blacks.  We were not allowed to go to the Capital Theater because it was so far away from home, and my aunt identified them as undesirable people.  Then we’d pass through a shoe shop.  I can’t think of the name now.  Then we would pass Miss. Frances Black and Miss.…anyway they were teachers in the system.  Catherine Black. 
BENSON: Their houses.  That’s where they lived? 
BRIGGS: Yes. And they sat on their porch every Sunday.  We were going to Sunday School, and we would have to politely say, “Good morning,” and “Good afternoon” or whatever.  And when we would leave to go inside the church, and they would leave and go and get ready for their church which was Sidney Park.  It was very hot at that time.  There was no air conditioning, and we had to sit there and fan all day long from nine o’clock in the morning until three o’clock in the afternoon.  We didn’t mind it, though.  It was just the way of life.  In the summertime, we had Bible school, and I was not allowed -- I don’t say allowed -- they utilized my services because I played the piano.  Instead of playing with my peers, I had to be a little teacher teaching Sunday school songs and what have you.  We enjoyed it.  At that time, Elnora and those were really into drama.  They would have plays and what have you, and it was a fun time.  But coming back from church, we would stop by the Pinckney Funeral Home to see the bodies of the dead people.  (laughter) They would take us in (laughter) and we would go in there and be just frightened to death, and boy, I don’t know, we’d go in and see the bodies of whoever was lying there dead.  There’s no longer a Pinckney Funeral Home, but there was the Johnson’s Funeral Home.  It was operated by... oh... I don’t know... but anyway, those were the two funeral homes we would visit and view bodies of dead people.  We would walk on back home and have Sunday dinner and enjoy Sunday dinner.  We could not cut anything on Sunday.  We could not use scissors.  Now, I don't know the rationale behind that.  I just know we couldn’t.  We could read the funnies and the paper.  We had the ability to read certain articles.  I was the last one to read because I followed the chain of command.  Adults first, then the older children second, then I would be the last person to read the funnies.  We were closely allied with the State Paper Company because Joe, as we grew older, became a State carrier.  He worked from the seventh grade up to the eleventh grade in the State Paper Company. 
BENSON: This was your -- 
BRIGGS: My cousin.  He was my cousin, but my aunt -- my mother died when I was very young, 17 months.  So she reared the three of us, my sisters, with her three children as brother and sister.  There was no difference then in the rearing of the six of us.  And so...  
BENSON: You’d come back from church and then talked about being aligned with The State paper. 
BRIGGS: Joe would carry The State paper, and I would have to go collect the money for The State paper because the people wouldn’t pay him, and I was so mouthy and so insistent that he would ask me, “You do the collecting, and I will do the delivering.”  And so, he carried The State paper from seventh grade through eleventh because we did not go to the twelfth grade.  There was a twelfth grade, but we were able to complete the eleventh and go on to college.  After we finished high school, the next year, it was mandatory that you go through grade seven through twelve. 
BENSON: You were going to which schools now? 
BRIGGS: Booker T. Washington High School, and we walked -- and we called that area through the Bottom.  It’s the area where you have the... it’s not a country club, but it’s the other past from Five Points on... it’s Carolina’s [Wheeler] Hill.  We walked from home to Booker Washington.  I was so happy when I got to go to Washington because we had to learn the Star Spangled Banner.  It was a highlight in our life to learn the Star Spangled Banner.  Things were just happening all around us in school.  A typing class would be going on over here, and another class there, and there was activity, activity, and it’s a large school, and Waverly was relatively small compared to the four building structure of Booker Washington.  It was a time that we enjoyed, and back to the elementary section, Waverly afforded for us a pageant and operettas.  I can remember when I was in the second grade I was so excited because the teacher handed me a note home to Nanny -- and I called my aunt Nanny -- telling me I would be in the Maypole, and I would have to have a white, organdy dress.  It was really, really an exciting time for me, and each year every school, and that would include Howard, Saxon, and Waverly, would compete for the students to plait the Maypole, and the students who would plait the Maypole without making an error doing the weaving of the plaiting -- won a prize.  That’s a highlight in my memory of my childhood.  We played Hide and Go Seek.  We played Roly-Poly, it’s a game with about three or four poles.  You rolled the ball, and you’d throw it in like golfing.  You’d several.  I remember all of the things, but was a game was exciting to us.  We played Mamma, and there was a song like a ring song and a chant.  “Mamma, Mamma, look at Miss Lucy over yonder. Miss Lucy is picking up Mamma. Stoop, come on let’s stoop.” And that was one of the things we enjoyed.  We played Drip-Drop, I Lost my Pocket Handkerchief and we formed a circle, and the person with the handkerchief would walk around the circle saying, “Drip.  Drop.  I lost my pocket handkerchief.  I found it yesterday.  It was soaked and nasty and dirty until I had to throw it away.”  You’d drop the handkerchief behind a person.  (laughter)  And the person -- you’d run, and the person would try to catch you.  We were quite innovative.  I remember the time when we first got our radio.  And we did not have the opportunity to listen all day long because it would use up too much electricity.  (laughter)  We listened to the radio, and I remember having listened to the Joe Lewis fight, and Joe Lewis defeated Max Smith -- or whatever his name was -- we were so happy.  We could campaign and did a parade all around College Street.  Joe Lewis was the champion of the world.  I also remember having a great fear of gypsies. 
BENSON: Were there any gypsies in town? 
BRIGGS: Yes, gypsies would come through town, and we were quite fearful of gypsies.  I don’t remember the rationale behind it, but we were fearful of gypsies.  I remember when the circus came to town and a big bear was... caged like area.  They passed through the streets showing the bear and the organ grinder and monkey to encourage people to come to the circus.  I also remember going to the farmer’s market on Assembly Street, and people would sit and shell beans to sell there, and there was a big fountain on the side of the road.  It was in the center of the street -- the market was, and there was a big fountain.  I think they used that fountain to -- water the horses.  A lot of fresh vegetables -- 
BENSON: How many blocks did that take up? 
BRIGGS: I don’t know but it was more than two.   
BENSON: Was this every day that they were there? 
BRIGGS: I don’t know that they were there every day or just one.  I know we would go, in the midday, to get fresh vegetables from the market.  The vegetables were always pretty and green and leafy, and they were arranged so that you were encouraged and enticed to make a purchase.  And I remember Sunshine Grocery, located on Harden and Gervais, but he moved down to Pendleton and Harden, and Sunshine, Mr. Asmer, Fred Asmer was a resident.  He had come to America from Syria, and he was something like five or six children.  I know it was three girls and two boys.  Peter was one our age, and they were very friendly people, and we had a relationship with them.  I think that the oldest son is still here in Columbia, and he lives in the Cayce area.  The last time I saw him, he had a liquor store down on the corner of Harden and Blossom, and I told him who I was, and he remembered us, and we called him Mr. Fred.  My aunt would buy groceries from Mr. Fred every Tuesday, and she was sure to get some fruit for us to eat, and then with the advent of the A&P Store -- supermarket -- Mr. Fred stayed there, but we didn’t shop there as often as we did before the A&P came.  I remember the Piggy Wiggly, and it was a small store between Saluda and the street that runs parallel to Yesterday’s, and there was a Bluebird Ice Cream Parlor, and coming home from school, high school, we’d stop and have an ice cream.  We could not, we were not allowed to sit in the ice cream parlor.  Blacks could go in but we wouldn’t sit. 
BENSON: And what year was this? 
BRIGGS: Oh, that was like ’43, four, five, six.  We would go in when we had a nickel and get a cone of ice cream.  And there were no problems making the purchase or whatever. It was a way of life when I came along.  We were expected not to socialize or interact with whites, on one hand, but on the other hand, like Mr. Fred Asmer, and other people in the community, there was a mixture of races.  We really didn’t have a problem of a racial undertones because we were accustomed to living with and among whites.  I think I came along when things were sort of breaking up to where they are today.  I know that Mrs. Rosemond had a cow, and she would serve the white patrons that lived close to the Valley Park Area, and from Taylor Street to Valley Park, which is now King Park, there were only three black residents.  The rest were white, until about 1939, and then blacks started moving in.  We had the white flight then, they moved out.  Dr. Stephenson -- he’s dead now -- but his daddy, Dr. Daniels, lived on the corner of Hampton and Oak, and Dr. Thompson were the only three black residents on Oak Street, but coming over to Pine we had more blacks.  We were there, but they were interspersed with black and white.  When we went to the Valley Park, we could only just stand outside and watch.  The May Day activities were beautiful, and we could not go in.  We would just stand and watch the activities of the white children.  I remember when I was with my son, years later, he said, “Ma, let’s go in.”  I’d say, “No, you can’t have your way son.”  He’d say, “Why?”  I’d say, “Because blacks can’t go in the park.”  “Well, Mikey’s white,” and Mikey was, he looked...  He couldn’t understand it, and that was a very painful thing for me to say to him. But that was the way it was back then.  We integrated the buses long before Rosa Parks.  We had Devine Street/Eau Claire, Veteran’s Hospital, Melrose Heights that ran in that area.  We would get on a bus.  If there were seats vacant, we would just sit down, and I was not as bold as Elnora.  She was quite bold, and she’d say, “Nanny, sit down.  Sit down.  There’s a seat,” and my aunt would not sit down.  She would stand where we would just sit.  And the bus drivers never said anything to us.  But my husband’s grandmother had an encounter with one of the drivers, and he said some things that were not so very pleasant, and she said, “You can call the police if you’d like, but I’m not going stand up.”  The driver didn’t call the police, and she didn’t move.  Life was -- it was a way of life that was not too very pleasant, but it was a way of life that we were accustomed to and that was it.  We couldn’t change it.  When I would go into Kress, we would kid ourselves about the water.  I’d say, “I guess I’ll try some colored water today.”  And she’d say, “And what color are you going to get?”  And I would say, “I think I’ll try yellow.”  And we would call different colors and what have you. At that time it was not self-service.  They had clerks behind the counters.  Each counter had a clerk, and the clerk was to advise us or any patron or persons making purchases, “This fountain is for white, and this fountain is for black.”  Of course, we grew up wondering what the difference is, but the colored water tastes very nice. 
BENSON: Now this was the Kress on Main Street? 
BRIGGS: That was the Kress on Main Street.  There was a Kress.  There was a Silvers.  Silvers had a grocery store in the back.  There was a McCrory’s, and I think there was a Walgreen’s, and Belk Department store.  There was an Efrid’s, that’s now Lourie’s.  There was a store called Shirts United, and we went often to JC Penny because Junior, Joe, was large for his age, and they would carry the kind of suit that would fit.  So, we knew a lot about JC Penny, and Belk.  We did a lot of trading in Belk.  Now, I remember when Tapp’s came.  But we didn’t go to Tapp’s too often.  Many of these stores were on Main Street.  I guess about the early (inaudible) 
BETTS: Did you have any other memories of attending Booker T. High School? 
BRIGGS: Yes.  I remember when we had the HMS Pinafore, the operetta.  I took music from the fifth grade on up at the Reynolds School of Music, located on Washington Street, and Mrs. Reynolds trained us in choral music.  Every year we would present the Seven Last Words of Christ at Bethel AME Church.  Bethel is no longer in operation, it’s just sitting there now.  She would take us there to do that. And at Christmas we would do Handel’s Messiah, and the Halleluiah Chorus at the end. And singing was a big part of our adventures.  On Saturday, we would go to the Palmetto Theater.  We had to sit in the balcony.  That’s the only place we could sit was in the balcony. And every Saturday you would have a group to entertain the persons before the movie started, and every Saturday -- one Saturday out of the month the Colored people – we were identified as “colored” then – the Colored would show their talent, and we would sing -- there was a little song that we would sing.  “Shine your shoes.  Slick your hair. Come along with me. It’s Mickey Mouse’s kiddie party, that’s the place to be.  Spread the news. Everywhere. Listen to them sing.  It’s Mickey Mouse’s kiddie party. What a holiday. The Three Little Piggies and the Big Bad Wolf are playing piggie back.  There’s Minnie dressed in her Sunday best and Donald Duck with his quack, quack, quack, quack. Shine your shoes...”  That was the introduction, and then we would audition for singing and be happy because we were singing on the air.  We were aired if we were fortunate enough to sing, and Elnora and I, and Dottie (sp?) and many of our friends would sing on the air at the Mickey Mouse Club party, and that was our Saturday activity.  Every Saturday. And one Saturday out of the week we had a black talent show, then the other Saturdays, the whites had a show.  We sat in the balcony and enjoyed them.  They sat at the bottom and enjoyed us. 
BENSON: And we enjoyed your singing.  (laughter)  You did well remembering the words.  (laughter) 
BRIGGS: Yes.  We had a fun time doing that.  Everybody had chores, and one threat our parents held over our head was if you don’t do your chores, or you don’t do your lessons, you’re not going to the Mickey Mouse Club.  So we’d do our chores.  Mine was the bathroom.  I kept the bathroom clean.  And then we would clean up so fast.  (laughter)  I was always slow, and finally I would come out. But, Elnora couldn’t get her lessons like she should.  She was the one staying in after school, getting her lessons because we could not go out to play if we did not get our lessons.  She said, “As soon as you have completed your homework assignment, you can get to go out to play.” 
BENSON: I think you said to me one time that the other parents in the neighborhood would watch out for the other children. 
BRIGGS: They sure did.  I couldn’t do anything that was out of line.  My neighbor, Mrs. Napper, she would be sure to tell us, “You’re doing the wrong thing.” And you would have to really mind.  There was like it takes a village to raise a child.  Each parent in the neighborhood, we had to respect them.  If we didn’t, we got -- I’ll never forget that Mrs. Napper organized a Junior Elk Club, and she asked for us our dues.  I didn’t have my dues.  She said, “I know that your sister sent them.”  That was Evelyn.  She was a nurse in Virginia.  But she didn’t.  So I told Mrs. Napper that and she said, “So I’m a liar.”  After that, she didn’t say anything.  And so my aunt spanked me for saying that, but it was true. 
(laughter) 
BENSON: She was trying to help you out.  (laughter)  And you were telling the truth. 
BRIGGS: We had to really respect all the elders in our community.  Elnora worked at the Five Points Theater.  We had a lot of fun.  I think nine cents was the fare.  I remember the eight bracket.  I paid nine cents until I went to college. 
BENSON: And you didn’t have to pay any more after you got in. 
BRIGGS: Nine cents.   
BENSON: That was a lot of money.  (laughter) 
BRIGGS: I would get an allowance of twenty-five cents a week.  And I had to really budget that twenty-five cents.  So, nine cents out of that 25, and of course, a cone of ice cream on the way, and we refused to take lunch to school because it was expensive for my aunt to make sandwiches, and we dare not carry a biscuit.  That was a no-no, so we would...  That’s one of those little things.  We would laugh at the kids who ate biscuits, but they were full and we were hungry.  (laughter)  My aunt would say, “I’ll give you a biscuit with some jelly on it.”  And we couldn’t do that, we just couldn’t do it.  So Dot and I would wait until we got home, got a cone of ice cream.  We met some fellows – Durham Carter (sp?), he’s our neighborhood representative now, and Andrew Bell (sp?), they made very good friends with us.  So Durham had a job at the hotel, and in order to get to work on time, we would bring his books home, and would give us something for bringing his books.  The government had three cents milk.  Milk for three cents, and an oatmeal cookie.  The oatmeal was the five cents. That would be enough for us to take care of our lunch.  We were proud.  “We can’t carry a biscuit.”  (laughter)  I remember never, ever carrying a biscuit.  I didn’t care for biscuits.   
BENSON: What were some of your other chores?  You were mentioning to me about raking the yard. 
BRIGGS: We had to rake the yard.  We had to sweep the yard.  Sweep it.  In the back if there were overgrown or weeds, and I had a flower plot.  Everyday, we’d have to rake the yard, scrub the front porch, keep it nice and clean.  Water the flowers.  I’ve always loved flowers so I had my own little flower plot.  Sunflowers.  Black-eyed Susans.  They were very popular everywhere.  They sprung up everywhere.  So we would keep that area clean.  So that was one thing that was stressed that we do. Everett Dargan, who was a doctor down in Columbia was in our neighborhood.  Judge Matthew Perry.  He and my sister were classmates at Booker Washington.  About ten years older than I.  They were classmates.  Ethel Bolden was my sister’s classmate and attended Booker at the same time.  Joe Ruth (sp?), there were several postal employees.  There was a Mr. Paul, who was a tailor on Washington Street, Owen and Paul Company, and he specialized in suits.  There were people who sang to raise funds for the Bethlehem Church, and Mr. Howard, who was my neighbor, sang there.  The Jacksons lived around the corner.  His house is featured in A True Likeness about the Roberts Collection at USC.  And then we had those unique characters, I guess, would be a part of any community.  There was Swishin’ Lottie, and there was Reefer Man, and Know He Dead.  Swishin’ Lottie was a prostitute, and on route to Zion we would see Swishin’ Lottie, and all down the street she would swish. (laughter)  Reefer Man, I guess, the drug scene was not like it is today, but somehow, somebody started calling him Reefer Man, though I associate it now with the reefer.  Reefer Man had a box house that he lived in, and we were afraid of him. Know He Dead was man that worked for Oscar Conrad Garage.  We played at night right in front on the house because we could not go up the street or down the street.  We had to stay in our area.  Jimmy decided to pull out a stick, snuck it across the street, and it looked like snake.  When the man came out, he hit it.  He said, “I know he dead now.”  [Hit] “I know he dead now.” [Hit] “If he’s not dead he’s not go’n die this snake.” So we started calling him Know He Dead.  Oscar Conrad -- he was an employee of Oscar Conrad.  That was the big mechanical shop right across from the Animal Hospital in Five Points. My uncle worked for Southern Bakery and Claussen’s Bakery.  And I would have to take lunch to him at twelve o’clock.  At that time, there was a loaf of bread hot off the -- just pull it out and pat it with butter.  It was delicious.  That’s where the Eckerd’s stands today. Eckerd’s in Five Points, that was the Southern Bakery. 
BENSON: What other occupations did some of the residents of Waverly have? 
BRIGGS: We had contractors, salesmen. We had a doctor, Dr. Pride, and he had two sons.  One died, but Hemphill is a lawyer here now.  Hemphill was the only paperboy that rode around in a Cadillac.  (laughter)  Hemphill delivered our papers in his daddy’s Cadillac.  There as a Dr. Hallman.  A Dr. Goode.  And most of these people lived from the Gervais Street side of Waverly down to the Valley Park side.  There was a Dr. Goode.  There was a Dr. -- Ph.D., Willis Johnson.  He was the first superintendent of schools.  Oh no, that’s C.A. Johnson, Willis was a mortician.   C.A. had several children, and one time they lived on Pine Street, then moved to Stark.  There was Professor Sullivan, and he was the principal of the school in the Arthurtown area. 
BENSON: There were all black residents. 
BRIGGS: All black.  There was a Mrs. Sallie Howard.  She was a teacher in Blythewood. She lived on our street.  My sister was a nurse.  My sister finished 1940, the class of 1940, at Columbia Hospital, and she went to work in Florence at McLeod’s for a while, and then she went to Northern Virginia, and she was hired, she’s a registered nurse, she was hired as the first black health investigator for the state of Virginia.  Joe and I went to A&T State University, and I went into teaching, and Joe was hired as an employee of the Naval Research Lab, and there are only two Naval Research Labs.  One is in Orlando, Florida, and the other is in -- I think it’s Los Angeles -- and he went to the University of Michigan.  When he finished, he came down (inaudible).  Everett Dargan is still in practice in Columbia.  Matthew Perry.  A lot of teachers.  A lot of teachers.  Mrs. Saxon. Celia Dial Saxon.  She was absent from school for only three days in something like 50 years.  And Saxon Homes was named for Mrs. Saxon.  Mrs. Cardwell (sp?) lived -- she was in the Liberty Hill section.  Dr. B. A. Everett, his home still stands on the corner of Hampton and Pine, and his son is now a dentist on one of those streets.  He’s in practice there now.  His other son is in Buffalo, New York.  He’s a doctor.  There was a B. A. Blocker, who was a dry cleaner.  J. B. Hendley (sp?) who was a dry cleaner and laundry man.  Many carpenters and contractors.  No plumbers.  Blacks were not hired as licensed plumbers.  But there were -- they knew the trade because I know a lot of times when we had problems with our toilets Mr. Toatley (sp?) would come and help us.  At that time, black men could not get licensed for plumbing work. 
BENSON: Tell us about the library in the Waverly community. 
BRIGGS: It was a church.   
BENSON: And when that came about. 
BRIGGS: I don’t know when it came about, but I do know that as long as I can remember, we would go to the library and we’d go to story hour, and as I said before, previously, the summer program included certificates being awarded for the number of books you read.  The one that I had was -- I think I read five books in 1939 when I was in the fourth grade, I believe.  And Elnora read about 15. [Showing certificate] “State of South Carolina, County of Richland, Library Certificate. This certifies that Thomasina Davis was a member of the Vacation Reading Club and read during the summer of 1939 five books from the special reading list prepared by the Richland County Public Library, and is hereby presented this certificate. Given this date…” 
BENSON: “Eight day of September 1939.” Signed by the Children’s Librarian, Catherine Wheeler, and the Librarian, Julia W. Talley. 
BRIGGS: So that was my certificate and this is Elnora’s [showing certificate] showing that she had read ten books, and that was 1937, and in 1938, she read 16 books.  My aunt was one of the first black persons to be licensed to teach kindergarten in Columbia, and therefore, I don’t know when I learned to read because I could read.  As long as I can remember, I could read.  I couldn’t tell time.  (laughter)  That was a difficult task for me, but I could read.  All of us could read. 
BENSON: Because you went to the library often? 
BRIGGS: Yes.  Yes.  She insisted that we go to the library.   
BENSON: And other activities at the library? 
BRIGGS: At the library?  I know there were, but I can’t -- that’s very fuzzy.  I don’t remember.  We did other things besides just reading.  I think we did a little dramas, and it was a stage-like setting because it was a church, and the church was renovated into the library setting.  We enjoyed it, the reading program and the library.  It was -- I only recall Mrs. Talley being in the library.  I did know Mrs. Wheeler because her daughter was my age.  We had fun with this library program, and I’m grateful to my aunt for doing that for us because it really was prepared us for a lot of life’s work reading books extensively.   
BETTS: Mrs. Briggs, what major changes have you watched take place in the Waverly Community through the years that you’ve lived there? 
BRIGGS: Basically, the homes are the same.  The only thing new is siding or whatever.  Basically, they’re the same.  There are a few shotgun houses, you know a shotgun house – straight through -- but most of those homes are old, stable homes.  The main change would have been, is actually, the siding, asbestos siding.  Another change was that every street afforded a grocery store.  There was a store up the street from us that we called Brunson’s Alley because Mr. Brunson not only owned the store, he owned a lot of property in that area. And then the next street over, somebody else would have a store.  Mr. Knox, a white proprietor, ran a grocery store.  He was a retired policeman.  Mr. Knox decided to live in the back and run the store in the front.  Then there was a Mr. Felder (sp?).  Knox was on Pendleton, Mr. Felder was on Pine. A street over, another person would run A. P. Richardson, so everywhere you looked there was a store until finally the A&P came, and that sort of did away with the local stores.  For the most part, only the largest change would be in the structure of the churches.  The Episcopal Church moved from Hampton Street, on this side of Main Street, to Waverly.  Second Cavalry, First Cavalry moved from the Lady Street area near Main Street to Pine Street.  Waverly Elementary School still stands today, and it is the home of the educators in District One.  We attended Waverly as children, and they converted it into business offices for the teachers, not teachers but resource people in the district.  The black owners were sort of (inaudible).  Other than that, the biggest change was the paving of the street.  I remember when the streets were -- I think they were paved in 1939.   
BENSON: Are you saying that a lot of the streets were still just dirt? 
BRIGGS: They were dirt up until -- I cannot really say, but in 1939, that street was not paved, in the (inaudible) city was not paved.  Finally, Gervais was paved.  Harden was paved.  Oak, Pine, and -- our street were not paved until much, much later.  Then it was not actually paved but topped like tar.  That’s the main change that I can -- 
BENSON: What kinds of development or redevelopment efforts do you feel would be most helpful to your community now? 
BRIGGS: Right now we are being considered for the historic district.  There’s not much change going to be made for the residences of the Waverly area.  Houses all have to be up to certain codes, and we hope that substandard houses, we can do without that.  Other than that, a lot of houses are pretty up to par.  The house that Elnora lives is in the family home.  I know it’s about 90 years or more old.  I live in an old house, right next door.  The architecture, the bricking is sort of, I don’t know the name, they identified it some sort of bricking, but the code that the City of Columbia established for residences of historic areas have a certain standard.  All of us don’t necessarily have to comply with.  Our homes comply with it.  We try to keep it -- and I try my best to keep the flowers pretty, and I take care of her yard and mine.  Her yard’s so much better than mine.  (laughter)  And I just talk to those flowers, and talk, and tell them what is your problem?  Why do you have to look that way?  And I have to extend this.  I love plants and I love flowers.  So, I would hope that the city fathers would see fit to get rid of those substandard houses.  It’s a lovely place to live.  It’s in a city, near a good shopping area.  The relationship is good.  Columbia didn’t experience a lot of racial tension.  We didn’t have that problem, at least we didn’t in our area.  We are enjoying it.   
BENSON: I think you’ve covered most of our major questions.  Do you have any other pictures or anything that you brought that we haven’t already seen that you wanted to -- 
BRIGGS: I don’t know.  I just thought of my sister because we got a telephone to come along.  Evelyn, she was a nurse.  During the war, World War II, food was rationed.  We had to limit our amount, choose what you could get, and so for a long time, Mr. Jackson was the only one with a telephone.  Evelyn, being a nurse, was able to get a phone for us.  This man [showing a portrait of an African American man] was one of the first taxpayers, first known taxpayers in the Columbia area. I think his name is underneath. 
BENSON: Jesse Weston. 
BRIGGS: Yes.  And he lived right there in the Millwood section that currently is storage, at one time it was Powell’s Garage. And these were his sons, and let me show that his taxes were paid, these are his sons, and most of his sons are in Augusta and New York and Long Island, but his granddaughter-in-law was a history professor at Benedict College, Annabelle Weston. I think I got a picture of her somewhere. But he was the first.  At that time. [Showing a portrait of a woman] Mrs. Nixon (sp?) was our farm demonstration agent and she had a lot to do with the Lyon Street area.  She saw to it that the park was really built for them.  It was a very unique – [Turns page in scrapbook] This is one of my very first teaching positions.  When I finished college, I moved to Louisville, Georgia, and this was the paper, 1952 [Jeffersonian Journal]. I didn’t know that my aunt had this in here it looks like it’s been in here since then, brown, and it says (reading silently) whatever it was.   
BENSON: Do you have any other pictures of people from the area that maybe the camera can pick up on?   
BRIGGS: This is my sister’s class. [Photograph of nurses] 
BENSON: The nurses? 
BRIGGS: And she was in the class at Booker T. Washington High School of 1936, and she was in the class of 1940, and we’d go up there to visit her and dance and have a – [points to photograph] Lonnie Randolph, [photograph] Here’s Mr. Weston, the man who was the first tax, [showing portrait of woman] and she was the wife of the chemistry instructor at Booker T. Washington High School.   
BENSON: Griffin. 
BRIGGS: Yeah.  Mrs. Griffin.  And she has a son who’s an attorney in upstate New York, I think.  [Portrait of a man] This man built the first ferry bus in Columbia.  He was a chaplain at the VA Hospital. 
BENSON: Rev. Robert L. Simons. [Simons also built the first library bookmobile]. 
BRIGGS: Simons.  [Portrait of a man] Mr. Pullman (sp?) was a barber. [Portrait of a woman] Mrs. Washington was a principal in Blythewood, [portrait of a woman] Mrs. Nan Robinson was a great missionary worker.  [Picture of Lonnie Randolph] Lonnie is an optometrist.  He’s relatively young.  [Picture of a man] Samuel Johnson is a physician in, the last time I remember, it was in Fayetteville, North Carolina, and Modjeska Simkins lived around the corner from at one time. 
BENSON: I see Mrs. Annie Green Nelson mentioned. 
BRIGGS: Yes.  She was the first known novelist, black novelist, and she lived in the Waverly area.  [Picture of a woman] Mrs. Bentley is now 101 years old, and she ran a dry cleaning structure.  [Picture of a woman and man] Ethel Bolden, Charles Bolden. She was my sister’s classmate.  They lived on Barnwell Road section.  [Several pictures of family members] These are pictures of my sister and cousins, all my cousins, in the 1940s, I think.  She was at Benedict in this one. [Photograph of a man]  Mr. Johnson was a mortician and Johnson’s Funeral Home is now Palmer Funeral Home, [photograph of a man and dwelling] and Mr. Jackson, his home still stands on the corner of Stark and Harden Street, and his daughter was a media specialist at Carver Elementary School.  –Photograph of a building] That’s Johnson’s Funeral Home that’s now a parking lot, but that’s on the corner of Washington and Park -- right up here -- it’s a parking lot.  [Photograph of a man and business license] He was one of the Collins, and Mr. Collins ran a clothing store on Washington Street, and this is the license for that. [Photograph of the interior of the store] and this is the interior of his store.  [Photographs of women] And his daughters, like him, were entrepreneurs. She had a boutique in New York City. [photograph of a woman], and that’s their mother, [photograph of a women] and Mrs. Reynolds was the director of the Mozart Choral Society of which I talk about when I said music society.  [Insert of text] Those are some of the words of Christ. [Insert of newspaper article from The State about Mrs. Hanberry] Mrs. Hanberry was a great teacher.  She worked in Blythewood, and she had a hand in educational pursuits for a long time. 
BENSON: That’s the Hanberry School? 
BENSON: That’s the one.  [Photograph of Elnora Robinson] This is Mrs. Robinson, Elnora Robinson, and she was the superintendent of (laughter) -- my sister.  I just worry her to death -- she was a media specialist at Greenview Elementary, and she was the superintendent of the Sunday school at Zion Baptist Church and served in a lot of other capacities.  [Insert of newspaper article] This is Mr. Hanberry.  He’s a Dean over at Benedict.  He was a Dean over at Benedict College.  At one time, he was the interim president until they got a new president. [Photograph of a man]  This is Mr. Pride, the young man Hemphill lives here in Columbia now.  He was the one that drove his daddy’s Cadillac to -- 
BENSON: deliver the papers. 
BRIGGS: [Photograph of a man] -- and here is his daddy.  He was the dentist for the schools [photograph of a woman] and that’s his wife. Hemphill was a lovely person.  A lovely person.  [Columbia Hospital School of Nursing class photograph] This is E.W. Cromartie’s mother.  [Newspaper article insert] This is from when Judge Matthew Perry, was first selected to become a judge, and that’s from the Columbia Record.  [Newspaper article insert] Mr. Russell worked on the atomic bomb. 
BENSON: Dr. Edward R. Russell? 
BRIGGS: He was a professor at Allen and he went to the University of Chicago, and was approached to work with them on atomic bombing. 
BENSON: He was a Waverly resident? 
BRIGGS: A Waverly resident, and his home still stands there today. 
BENSON: Where is that? 
BRIGGS: On Heidt Street, Palmetto, around the same block as the Waverly School.  (inaudible)  [Photograph of a man] This is my son, and he’s a media specialist at USC.  He works for the college.  [Photograph of Jim Clyburn?] And this is... Who’s this man?  Oh, I don’t know... [Photograph of two women] These are members of the National Association of University Women, and they ran our Black History program, Jean Abraham (sp?), her husband is the editor of Palmetto… I don’t know who the other lady is.  Palmetto Leader was Mr. Hampton (sp?), and we read the Palmetto Leader, 1930 to the late 1940s. [Photographs of family members]  This is my family.  This is my aunt, the one who was the kindergarten teacher.  That’s my sister, Elnora.  That’s Tommy and Sarah, and Vivian was the librarian at Golden High in Newberry, South Carolina. 
BENSON: A number of librarians in the family. 
BRIGGS: Oh, yeah. [Photograph of Thomas Marshall] My neighbor, he was one of the first blacks to integrate the public schools in Columbia, along with I. DeQuincey Newman’s son and two other persons. 
BENSON: Thomas Marshall. 
BRIGGS: Thomas Marshall.  [Photographs of family] And this is my family in New York.  This is the family.  [Photograph of a woman] This is Evelyn, the one who’s on the cover of the book.  And she was a nurse and a public health investigator, [photographs of family] and that’s my son, and that’s my daughter.  She works for the General Motors.  I’m so proud of my daughter.  She works for General Motors in Flint, Michigan.  She started out as a nurse, and she called me on the phone and she said, “Mamma, I had a comatose patient, and I want to change my major.”  (laughter)  And so I said, “Well, it’s up to you. It’s your life.”  And she changed it.  She’s a chemical engineer in Flint, Michigan.  That’s Thomasina.  That’s my husband, and that’s Thomasina.  One of my students sent me a picture, and it had an inscription.  I thought about me. [Photographs of people and insert of school song] And when I was at Waverly School, we had an alma mater.  It went like this, “Waverly.  Waverly.  We will pledge our love to thee.  All through life we will think of you as a mother kind and true.  Dear mother Waverly, Waverly, when we’ve left thy walls, we’ll be true and loyal to -- Dear Waverly.”  That was the Waverly School song. [Photograph of Josephus Neeley] and Joe is at the Naval Research Lab in Washington.  [Photograph of a woman] I think that my aunt did well. She reared six children, and she reared us -- and they didn’t go to work.  At that time, the mother stayed home, the black mothers and the white mothers stayed at home.  And she reared six of us, all of us were allowed to go to the school of our choice.  Elnora selected to stay home and go to Benedict.  I wanted to go to Hampton, but it was crowded so I went to A&T. [Photograph of a woman] and she is one of the founders of Temple Memorial Church, and she worked at C. A. Johnson and moved to Detroit.  Her husband is one of the first firemen that were hired -- first black firemen that were hired in Columbia. 
BENSON: What was the name? 
BRIGGS: Donaldson.  Vivian Artemus Donaldson.  And her dad used to work for the polls in Ward 9.  [Photographs of family] She’s a minister, and Dot, he’s a teacher, and she’s a secretary. [Photograph of school children]  This is Waverly School, years ago, and Joe -- I wasn’t in there yet, but Joe was in there, and I was in another but I don’t know what happened to mine.  That’s Joe, and he works at the Naval Research Lab. [Photograph of students] And every spring, our principal would present the tenth and eleventh graders in an activity called the John W. Work Chorus.  John W. Work was the great musician in Fisk University, and every pupil at Booker had to sing, even if you couldn’t sing.  (laughter)  You had to sing a lot in our -- en route to go to sing.  They sort of specialized in Negro history. [Photograph of woman and chorus] This is the Mozart Chorus Society that Mrs. Reynolds director.  She was a principal out at... in California.  I can’t think of the name, but anyway, she was a reading specialist, too.  A great musician.  [Photograph of a man] Dr. Stuart was the only specialist in Columbia during this time in the 1920s and ‘30s, and he owned one of three black-owned drugstores.  When he died, we willed all of his property, with the exception of the home while his wife lived, to Benedict College and when she died they acquired that property.  
BENSON: (inaudible) 
BRIGGS: And he had a drugstore across the street from Allen University.  [Photograph of a woman] Gene Hopkins was one of the four black nurses that integrated the Veterans Hospital here in Columbia. [Photograph of a man] And Everett Dargan and I were classmates, and Everett left Booker in the tenth grade, they gave them a special test, and I always think that they were biased because girls didn’t take the test.  But he was allowed to go to college at Morehouse when he finished Booker.  [Newspaper article about Mrs. Rose]  Mrs. Rose, and her daddy was a North Carolina Mutual Insurance agent, and she was a great teacher, and she retired and helped in the community. [Photograph of a man] This is Gilroy Griffin who lives in the New York City area now, an attorney. [Newspaper photograph] This is a picture of the Progressive Party and it was affiliated with the Democratic Party, and at that time, they were not seated with the Delegates, but they went anyway.  His name was Mr. McCray, and he had publishing company, a newspaper.  He was a newspaper publisher.   
BENSON: You mentioned the Palmetto Leader.  What else do you know about the Palmetto Leader? It was a black newspaper? 
BRIGGS: It was a black newspaper, and at that time, I couldn’t type, but Mr. Hampton lived next door to my friend Dot, and he would hire us for the summertime. And I would collate papers, and Dot would do the typing.  He had that newspaper for years. Palmetto Leader. I’m just highlighting a few things. But there’s a lot to tell -- 
BENSON: You’ve done a great job.  You covered a lot of different subjects.  We certainly appreciate it.  Thank you so much.  Thank your sister for coming. 
BRIGGS: I will.  I thank you for the opportunity, and I’d like to – 
 
End - Oral History Interview with Thomasina Briggs and Elnora Robinson