Oral History with Gus Graydon

              Oral History with Gus Graydon 
Interviewee: Graydon, Augustus T., 1916-2007 
Interviewer: Benson, Sarah; Copp, Roberta 
Date: March 29, 1994 
Location: Still Hopes Episcopal Home, West Columbia, S.C. 29169 

  
GRAYDON: …One of first impressions of Charleston, I don’t think they’ve done one on Mellowed By Time, but that was a lovely little book about this big. It had several prints that Mrs. Verner had done and then she also contributed text to it. She was quite a person I knew her myself and her books are down in a street in Charleston, about one below Broad Street, on…  
BENSON: Tradd? 
GRAYDON: Tradd and Meeting I think is right there. But you would have no difficulty locating it. It’s the only way I know to get to it. They don’t have them in the library? 
BENSON: Oh I’m sure we have. 
GRAYDON: Some of these. 
BENSON: But you don’t know of any other printings of any of these. 
GRAYDON: No. 
BENSON: Or any other sources to obtaining them. 
GRAYDON: No. 
BENSON: This is another thing. Was there a connection with Mrs. Bostick and The State Company? Do you know of any connection and if so what titles was she involved with? 
GRAYDON: Well she ran Bostick and Thornley [Press]. She and Mr. Thornley. 
BENSON: But did they have a connection with The State Company? 
GRAYDON: No. The State Company. No. 
BENSON: At all? 
GRAYDON: No. 
BENSON: Any joint ventures? 
GRAYDON: No, they didn’t print anything with them. Because they would have been. The State Company was kind of a n’er-do-well, if I may say so. The Gonzales brothers kind of ran it on their, but one of the Gonzales brothers had been killed of course by this time. 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: And they ran it kind of on their shirt sleeves. 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: And they lost money during the whole time that they were at the head of the company. Until 1939 [1937] when Mr. William Elliott Gonzales died. And he was a very dapper-looking, nice-looking Cuban gentleman. Now the other Gonzales, Narciso Gonzales, had been killed by Tillman. 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: But. No they kind of steered clear of each other because it was. There wasn’t much going on in the commercial way, in the way of printing books. Particularly, that’s what all of these were, books, they’re not some pamphlets. 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: Or something like that. They’re all pretty good books. 
BENSON: Well that’s what I had to ask you about that. You had asked us to give you a list, maybe just to be a memory refresher, of people that were on the Board. 
GRAYDON: Yes. 
BENSON: When you were there. Now there are different pages to this. But they list them by the date. 
GRAYDON: Yes. That’s Clark Brockman who I knew on the Board. And Mrs. Arthur St. Julian Simons, she was perennial Secretary. And she kept the notes and she was pretty good at it. Her husband was head of The State printing company, no R.L. Bryan printing company. And Mr. James F. Dreher was on the Board. And Dr. Robert W. Gibbes was on it. He died while I was there. William W. Gibbes, Jr. was on the Board. And me, and Mrs., I don’t see, oh yes that’s Mrs. Christie Benet. She was really a mainstay of it and she was a brilliant woman. She was a Haskell when she was born. And she had plenty of sense. Lucy [Bostick, Head Librarian] respected her. And that shows you she had plenty of sense. 
(laughter) 
GRAYDON: You don’t know much about Lucy do you? 
BENSON: No, she was. 
GRAYDON: Oh she... 
BENSON: Gone a long time before I was there. 
GRAYDON: She died, 1968 she died. She ran a dog business out at her place, which is now called Woodhill Mall or some horrible name like that. (laughter) And they sold her place after she died. And they cut it up and they were going to do all kind of things with it. And they did a lot of things but we saved some of it. But it’s a sorry-looking whole, element if I may say so. It’s called Dogwood out there, dogwood the tree. And you know where her house is, don’t you? 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: Well that house was designed by Mr. Heslep, who built it. And he was a great friend of Mrs. Bostick. And has a beautiful staircase in it. And it has a kind of living room and then a dining room and a breakfast room, or something like that, then all across the back there was another big room. And once I was out there and they were having a meeting of the Drama Club, whatever that is, and somebody opened the door and the dogs poured out and they ran across the men and ladies that were lined up in chairs, and ran right across them and started barking. (laughter) So that broke the meeting up, needless to say. But, she kept Cocker Spaniels, and she had good lines in them. She believed so in lines, which was almost impossible to believe in this time, but she believed so in lines that she wouldn’t leave any of her money or her things to any child that was adopted. Isn’t that --? 
BENSON: That’s… 
GRAYDON: But that’s the truth. She believed it. I tried. I wrote her will and so I tried. I said “Lucy, you can’t.” And she was sick. She’d been in this automobile wreck down in Five Points, and I said, “Lucy, you can’t do that.” And she said, “Well, I will do it because I believe in it.” I didn’t know what to say to that, me a young lawyer then. But, she died. We were down in Mississippi, buying the papers down there, in Biloxi, the Gulf port, Mississippi. And so we, I speeded to her and I went to the hospital and read it over to her, we signed it about 5:15 that afternoon and she was unconscious by the time we got back there but we got it signed in time. And she remained unconscious for a long time, and she finally came in a little bit but then she died. And that was the end of that chapter. By that time, I don’t know when it is, maybe you can locate it, up in your library somewhere there are books that tell you not just what business was downstairs, but what was upstairs. And the library was on the second story location over what was then the R.L. Bryan Company, I think, and they moved it to, finally, to the location where the old building was. And that was the James Woodrow house [1400 Sumter Street], and he had a press in the back of his business. But that had nothing to do with these books that were published, they were published elsewhere. These books, the ones that were really beautiful, like the ones with Mrs. Verner in them, they were done by A.S. Beck and Company in Philadelphia. And they did the finest work on engravings in the country then. And they were really beautiful books. Wish I had some of them here, I hadn’t ever thought about it. But I bet you all have got some of them now. 
BENSON: Right. 
GRAYDON: You’ve seen the copyright A.S. Beck and Company haven’t you? Just want to make sure you’re right and I’m right. Remember, I’m old. 
BENSON: (laughter) 
COPP: You’re almost as old as I am, right? 
GRAYDON: You know I didn’t say how old you were. 
COPP: How did you get involved with the library? 
GRAYDON: Well, I had known Mrs. Bostick all my life. And I was in the World War II. I went out to Fort Jackson first. I had volunteered in a great burst of patriotism, and for some unknown reason they sent me to Montgomery, Alabama. And when I got down there they said that they had an assignment for me, wouldn’t tell me what it was. So, I called up Lucy and asked her, did she know anybody in Montgomery? She knew some people down there. And they got me the assignment. Later I was told I got the assignment because I had three degrees in my education. And I thought, “Well Lord, this is going to be something fine.” I was made Head Bartender at the Officer’s Club in charge of keeping the Officer’s wives sober. 
BENSON: (laughter) 
GRAYDON: And I was a failure I might add because you can’t keep -- One woman was a terrible drinker. And you can’t keep a person that’s going to drink, there’s no way to keep them sober. But Lucy’s husband was the difficulty. He was an alcoholic. Mr. Bostick. He never did anything, except he got his head shot during World War I and had a plate in his head. And he was still living when Mrs. Bostick died. And then he came in from somewhere to the estate. But that was all ironed out so it didn’t hurt too badly. Now what is this? 
COPP: Those are questions that we are going to ask you. And I’ve already asked you some. 
GRAYDON: And what is this? 
BENSON: Those are just the list of the Board members. And those are some of the questions that we were interested in having answers to. 
GRAYDON: Alright. Well I became involved – Mrs. Bostick – I had gone to the Pulitzer School of Journalism in Columbia University in New York after I finished Sewanee in 1937, I think it was. And then I’d gone through the War and then I got out. I always went to see Lucy if I was here. And in later times I finally became a lawyer because the damn newspapers don’t pay you anything. I don’t know if either of you girls have been in the newspaper business. But I wasn’t interested in anything like how I would make a living. But as far as I know Lucy selected all of the Trustees. 
COPP: Oh really? 
GRAYDON: Yes, I think so. That’s the way it was done. But the first thing she made me was the Chairman of the Building and I did that with an architect named Heinie [Herndon] Fair. And we had a fund of around $350,000. Which was all the money we had. And Lucy had designed the building with a lot of columns and all of that kind of thing on it and it cost $750,000. And so we had to just abandon that, there wasn’t any way to build it. 
COPP: Was that the plan they had come up with before World War II started? 
GRAYDON: Yes. That’s right. They’d come up with it back as far as ’39 I think. 
COPP: Right. Because we have a picture of the sketch. 
GRAYDON: Yes, it was a very elaborate-looking building. But we just decided that to get it to the size were it would fulfill the facilities that we felt had to be fulfilled in this interim period. And we knew when we were building it, and when we got it built we knew it wasn’t adequate. The only reason it was adequate was because Mr. -- what in the hell was his name – a man from up – he [H. L. Eargle Construction Company] got the bid and then we discovered that he had left out the elevator. And I thought in my innocence and in my youth, and then I was informed otherwise and I looked it up and that was correct – you can’t renegotiate a public building. You’re stuck with it. Both you and -- both sides are stuck with it, whatever it is. And so we built the building. And the man who did it, he and his wife ran a parking lot there for about 4-5 years while we were building it, trying to get some money to, it doesn’t sound like anything but chicken feed, but getting some money to get the thing started. 
COPP: To put the elevator in. 
GRAYDON: To put the elevator in, that right. He was really in a hole. But, what the hell was his name. 
COPP: We have it I think in the Board minutes. 
GRAYDON: You got the name somewhere. 
BENSON: Yes. 
GRAYDON: Good. Well I knew him well because I’d go over there every day to check to see if they had enough money to buy Coca-Colas for the day. 
(laugher) 
COPP: How did you all pick – because wasn’t that LaFaye and LaFaye? 
GRAYDON: Yes, LaFaye, LaFaye and Fair. Fair was a part of it Heinie [Herndon] Fair. 
COPP: How did you pick that architectural firm? 
GRAYDON: I think they had been the firm for the building when they put out for bids in 1937. I think you’ll find that’s correct. 
COPP: Right, they were. 
GRADYON: They were? Well, that’s why it was. 
COPP: And so you just went on with them. 
GRAYDON: Just went on with them because – they were the only firm around here that built any building that looked like anything. I don’t know whether you remember or not the building that was across the street. It was a Court House before they put all that amalgamation across there. And that building was a terrible-looking building there. It was built by somebody named Mr. Urquhart, who was kin to 48 women that lived here in Columbia. And that’s the way they did things in those days. And he also built Wardlaw Junior High, built the Logan School up on Elmwood. And the one where Columbia High was, that was torn down, was done by another architect but it wasn’t very good either, I didn’t think. And they cried about how beautiful it was but I thought that was all a mistake.  
COPP: Well I know there are still a lot of people that regret that it was torn down. 
GRAYDON: Oh well they get sentimental about something. Well, the building that I felt was the important building in that area, was the – well there are two buildings – on the next corner, that is Washington and Main --  that is the Palmetto Building and the so-called Barringer Building. I think they are beautiful buildings and very unusual to have in a downtown, and then the one that is around the Barringer Building, was First National Bank, it has the pretty columns on it too [the Arcade building]. Now this building you’ve got now [the new Main Library at 1431 Assembly Street] is unbelievable it’s so damn good.  
COPP: Oh really. 
GRAYDON: It really is good. But, we met. I can’t remember how Lucy finally, or I don’t want to say it was Lucy, but finally I got off the Board because there was some dissention about me living over – well I got married in ’52 and I think I got off of it then because I was living out of the County. Why they hell they wouldn’t do anything for those poor people that live in Lexington County is beyond me. But that’s the way it was then. 
COPP: What was working with the County Delegation like? 
GRAYDON: We had minimal amount of contact with them, really. Just some people that had financial relations with them did, but there wasn’t any hope of getting any of the money that J McKay has gotten of late. And if he hadn’t done it, it would have never have been done, in my opinion. But fortunately, we’d expanded the thing where we had the reason to build these branches all over the county. And frankly, it ought to be a system that serves Richland and Lexington Counties. Because, I live in Lexington County, they’re a completely rural county and when Columbia was growing up after the Civil War, they never did a thing for anything that was across the River, or the people that lived across the River. Now they have, with the Zoo, as a joint-county venture and there are talking about other things to come, but they never have built – and I live out there and so I have a great feeling about this – the people in Lexington County have no way of really getting into Columbia except by these jammed up horrible roads. I think they’re going to correct that though. 
COPP: I hope so. 
GRAYDON: They ought to. 
COPP: Well, did they charge out-of-county people a fee, back then? 
GRAYDON: You mean -- 
COPP: To use the library? 
GRAYDON: The people of Lexington did not read. That was the way it was. They would have made some personal arrangement with them maybe, but there wasn’t any set fee for anything. 
COPP: Because now of course we charge the out-of-county fee. 
GRAYDON: Oh yes. And that’s $55, isn’t that right? Oh they fuss at me about that all the time, they say they can’t pay it and I say, what the hell did you do before you had this building? See, I suppose I’m somewhat unusual among Columbians but, and I’m not trying to espouse myself, but I had 12,000 volumes in my house when it burned. Now that’s unusual in this area to have that many books, whether in Richland or in Lexington County. I discovered that the actual handling of books and holding of books in people’s hands, goes hand-in-hand with interest in the library too. People that don’t handle books, don’t know anything about books, won’t fool with them. And the first thing they say, I say too often maybe, is they’ll cut this thing or this thing, and then they’ll cut a library. 
BENSON: Can you comment more on the library as a place in the community? 
GRAYDON: Well the library’s place in the community prior to World War I was zero. It had no place. Now there were -- my father had a library of about 5,000 books when he died, and he is listed in this book [Columbia, capital city of South Carolina, 1786 – 1936, Hennig] as one of the big library, personal library – it was a personal matter. And the University of South Carolina didn’t have anything but the old library building, which was built in 1840, and it’s a beautiful building, but it’s not an adequate library, frankly. And this only came about after World War II that people began to demand that they have adequate libraries in their communities. This one was built in ’48, or ’52, we had to stop it to build that damn elevator. (laughter) And I think it’s something, again I’m not going to pay tribute to myself, but I will pay tribute to J McKay. If it hadn’t been for J McKay it would never had been accomplished. We tried to start something, Mrs. Bostick called me down to the General Assembly one day, I didn’t know what in the hell I was going for, I’d gotten down there and I’d been there most of the morning, then I began to sense what I was going for, and finally it developed that they were trying to build a State Library, the one that’s up on Bull and Senate, and we had gotten, as I recall, Estellene -- 
COPP: Estellene Walker. 
GRAYDON: Do you remember Estellene? I called her Scentaline, to her face, she kind of – she was mad about those two lions that they have out there in front of the library, she had bought them in New York or some place like that. But apparently she was doing the work that needed to be done, particularly to undergird the twenty or so libraries in the state that don’t have a sufficient collection. I think we are beginning to have a sufficient collection now. 
COPP: She’s done a great deal for the public libraries in the counties. 
GRAYDON: That’s right. And that was necessary to give those people in those smaller counties some facility where they could get books or get whatever they wanted in the way of books. And the building is a very pretty building too, I think, it’s a lovely, lovely building. And I remember, this is right funny, they put it up on that corner, and Mr. McKay’s parents, and J, were raised at that site. 
COPP: Oh really? 
GRAYDON: Yes. Isn’t that right. 
BENSON: I believe so. 
GRAYDON: Yes, I know that’s right. And I think that makes some sense, that here’s somebody that had some sense about libraries, saw what had to be done, and I’m too damn old to do anything like that now. 
COPP: Well you did a lot, though, before. 
GRAYDON: (laughter) No, I’ve done more, frankly, in the field of historic preservation. I got the Seibel’s House for the Historic Columbia Foundation. I fought Jennie Dreher on every corner in Columbia. Do you know who Jennie Dreher is? 
BENSON: (laughter) Yes. 
GRAYDON: Well I fought her on every corner, she was always wrong. We’ve got her in a hole now, but whether she’ll reappear or not, I don’t know. 
BENSON: Can you tell us more about the moving process? In the new library from the other locations? 
GRAYDON: Well, when we decided to go ahead with the building on that site, the site of the Washington and Sumter, we knew then that that was where it was going to be built. So we had to get a building that was suitable. And we got the Wingfield House. And it was on the corner of – it’s where the Archaeology and History is now. 
COPP: Right. It’s were Archives and History is now. 
GRAYDON: Right, that’s right. And now, are they going to move? I mean they are talking about moving now? 
COPP: They haven’t gotten the money to do it yet. 
GRAYDON: I know it, I’ve talked to Mr. [George] Vogt about that. I think Wardlaw is a good site. Because I think fundamentally, you people that are in the public library field, now that you’ve gotten a damn good one, you don’t have to think anymore, but you did have to think for a while. So we moved up there and we tore down the old Woodrow House. That is kinsman of President Woodrow Wilson. 
COPP: His uncle. 
GRAYDON: His uncle, that’s correct. Not his ancestor. See he lived, you know, around on Hampton Street. And it was an added on house, and it served us and served them well for, you know, a short time and we finally got the other building built there. Tore that house down and started over. 
COPP: How did you get the books from the Woodrow House to the Wingfield House and then back to the library? 
GRAYDON: I don’t remember. I do remember this, we got some of them in what they used to call an old dray, a house and buggy thing that they hauled the book in. Of course if it rained it would have been a disaster. But, they had a truck of a kind to haul books back and forth. But there wasn’t really a very big collection I don’t think. I mean it was maybe adequate for those times. It’s pretty well spread out now isn’t it? 
COPP: We have lots of room, and room to grow. 
GRAYDON: Well you need it, my lord you need it. Well the thing I like about the building is, it may not be the prettiest building in the world from the outside, but when you’re inside of it and looking out, it’s just breathtaking. You know what I mean. And that’s what the architects were trying to do and I think that they did a wonderful job. And also, fortunately, at the same time, and I hope that somebody was kind of guiding that, at the same time St. Peter’s Catholic Church was building their school, right across the street, and it’s a very nice building. And it’s kind of a compliment to you all’s building. I call it you all’s, how about that? 
COPP: Wow thanks. 
BENSON: Fine, thanks. Can you tell me how the Board determined how many hours the library was to be open? 
GRAYDON: That was to be whatever Mrs. Bostick said it was to be open. You know, I love the story about one day I was in my office – my office was right across the street, there’s a place there on the north side of the 1200 block of Washington Street which was my office – it went back about 200 feet. And the phone rang and it was Lucy and I said, “Lucy, what in the world is it this hour in the morning?” It was quarter of 9. She said, “Oh, come over her immediately!” She spoke with an old county accent. And I said, “Well, I’ve got somebody coming.” “You’ve got to come, it’s an emergency!” And so I went over there just crossed Sumter Street and I went back to her office. And I said, “Well, what is it Lucy?” She said, “The darkies have petitioned to get into the library.” (laughter) Now, don’t say that because that does sound antiquated but that was what she was. You know she was Spanish, the Gonzaleses, and a Spaniard General came over here and married one of the Elliotts. That’s where her heritage comes from. And that’s just a little different from the rest of us. Now you’re a little pinkish yourself being from San Antonio (laughter). 
COPP: But you had the branch in Waverly. 
GRAYDON: We had the branch in Waverly. That came about because Lucy had this woman that worked for her named Katherine [Wheeler]. And Katherine’s name was Friday I think, but anyway she worked for her. And she set her up out there at the library, it was an old church, black church, and set her up in there. She saw the need for that. But she was very opposed to integration of the races or anything of that nature. I was kind of the integrationist, which she would fuss at me about. So when I came over there she said, “Well, what should we do now that they have filed a formal petition?” And I said, “Nothing to do but tell them to let them in.” She said, “But we can’t do that!” And I said, “Let them in Lucy! Don’t panic. I’ll poll the Board if necessary. But we can’t do anything other than let them in.” So, in the meantime she went through the building, the present building that was there, and she locked all of the restrooms. That was her idea of meeting the integration crisis. And nothing happened. It petered out, any opposition to it. But, you know people get panicky about this kind of thing. 
COPP: For southerners it was… 
GRAYDON: (laughter) But she was really a very unusual woman. And the fact that I was able to over a period of years to maintain an alliance with her was unusual both on my part and on her part. 
COPP: Because the Richland County Public Library didn’t have the same thing happen that happened up in Greenville. 
GRAYDON: Oh no. Nothing like that. And we didn’t have the same thing that happened in Arkansas, you know where they had really almost a riot there. The ‘riots’ are very often these -- My office, came out on Hampton Street and once a friend of mine who worked for the New York Times called and said, “Gus, are you all right?” And I said -- oh what’s his name, my brain come and goes -- but anyway I said, “Yes, we’re alright. What’s the trouble?” and he said, “They’re having an integration of the Woolworth ten cents store counter.” And I said, “Well, that’s right out my back door.” And he said, “Well, they’re having riots!” And I walked out of my back door and walked down Hampton Street and walked into the store on the back side of the store. And there was one, as Lucy would say, one “darkie” up at the counter. And nothing going on. He was eating lunch or something like that. And nothing ever happened to him. And that’s the kind of thing that I hoped would happen. It wouldn’t develop into an ugly incident. And that’s what we got to avoid. And you all have blacks some in now as a matter of course right? 
COPP: Oh yes. 
GRAYDON: Well that’s great I think. I don’t know what Lucy would say if she were here. (laughter) But that was just the way that those Hamptons were all brought up. And that’s the way it was then.  
BENSON: Well, speaking of controversies, did you have any involving library materials? In other words, censorship. 
GRAYDON: I don’t remember, the staff would do that, they would bring it to Lucy or Mr. Thornley. Let me tell you something about, now don’t put this [break in film]. 
GRAYDON: A library is very different today than what it was in these early days, when it was kind of a ‘hand to mouth’ disease situation rather than anything else. 
COPP: You mean because of the funding? 
GRAYDON: Yes. Because of the funding. They didn’t pay them anything. There was no funding for the building or anything like that. See, there were only two. Let’s see we had the Phyllis Wheatley branch out in Waverly, the branch here in town, and I think all the other branches have been developed since then. Isn’t that correct? 
COPP: She had what we called book deposits. 
GRAYDON: Yes, she had a bookmobile. And they would haul books around and deposit them in a certain store or something like that. I remember them doing that kind of thing. Any system such as what you have today couldn’t be thought of fifty years ago. 
COPP: It was a struggle. 
GRAYDON: It was a struggle. That’s right. And I’m very familiar with it. And people think that me and my two sisters were revolutionaries. I said, “Well, we’re not revolutionaries. We’re trying to catch up to the damn times.” (laughter) And when you deny, and I’m not trying to convert you all by any manner or influence your thinking, but when you deny a whole race access to the books, which was what was done here until we built that building that we had over the years, and when you deny that, they have no access to get ahead, to learn anything. And that’s just part of it but I think we’ve overcome that to some degree. 
COPP: Were you involved with the library when Mrs. Bostick was getting the Rosenwald funds? 
GRAYDON: Yes, that was back in the ‘30s wasn’t it? Yes, I’d forgotten. But I remember her talking about the Rosenwald funds to me. And they came from New York didn’t they? 
COPP: Right. 
GRAYDON: New York City I mean. 
COPP: Well, it was much like the Bostick Trust now, it was, the Rosenwald Trust, it was primarily a trust to establish libraries in rural areas. 
GRAYDON: Well there are Rosenwald libraries [schools] all over this state. I think there are probably 35 or 40 of them. And they are in buildings that look alike. They are pretty nice buildings. They are pretty antiquated this time, but they were pretty nice buildings in Belton, Anderson, and various and sundry places all over the state 
COPP: But I think, correct me if I’m wrong, but I got the impression that getting the Rosenwald funds was a big impetus – 
GRAYDON: It was a big impetus towards helping the blacks. That’s correct. Because they were always interested in how the circulation was amongst the blacks. Of course it wasn’t much but at least it was getting started, to some degree. A person who was as great of an influence as anybody -- and that had to be a black -- and that was Modjeska Simkins. In this county, [she] was a tremendous influence in getting books -- of interest to black people and of use to black people -- in their hands. And the Rosenwald, all of the funds for that kind of help came down here from New York or Chicago, or some central place. And what we were able to do was comparatively little, you know back in the ‘30s and ‘40s. 
COPP: Didn’t you have to match the funds? 
GRAYDON: I think we had to make some token match. But anything was a godsend in those days. And you two realize that it wouldn’t have happened if they hadn’t of had these funds coming down here. And the building out there on Gervais Street, it was a former church and was not an adequate building but at least it was a brink building, it was concrete and it at least had a roof on it. It wasn’t much. And another thing Mrs. Simkins did was it was where there blacks could get access to it. That was the important thing. They didn’t feel that they were going to be ousted out of it or taken out of it. And that was real important in those days. And she didn’t live near there, she lived up further on Marion Street but she was a good friend of mine. 
COPP: Well, her father had lived in Waverly and she was actually born in Waverly. 
GRAYDON: That’s right. You see, her husband, who was named Arthur Simkins, was from Edgefield. And my mother was from Edgefield and we all knew the Simkins’s in Edgefield and when I was a little boy my grandfather took me downtown and my grandfather said, “Now when you are going around town you may see a man named Arthur Simkins. You speak to him.” So I kind of knew what he would look like. And so I spoke to him. I ran up to him and grabbed him around his coat. He said, “Son, I’m not your grandfather. But I’m glad to have you speak to me.” He was a relative of my grandfather I think. That was the way I understood the situation. A lot of that went on, you know, in times past. 
[Break in tape] 
BENSON: --vandalism or theft and how these were handled in the library? 
GRAYDON: I don’t remember anything. Now we did have some books missing from time to time but that wasn’t very profound. I know for example I went over there once and took a look with Dottie Dial, she worked in the library. Did you know her? 
COPP: No, I didn’t know her. 
GRAYDON: Well, she’s died fairly recently, she died up in Oconee County. And they had some books missing but I was able to locate the books. Not ones that had been stolen. What they were trying to do which is very essential to have, in my book, in a library which is essentially an urban library, is a complete set of city directories. And I think ours goes back to about 1870 or something like that. 
BENSON: 1875 I believe… 
GRAYDON: Something in that neighborhood. And they are so important to real estate people and people looking up genealogy and it’s amazing -- 
COPP: Historians. 
GRAYDON: Historians, yes. They are real important. Because that’s what a library is. It’s a place that tends to the needs of all people, including those that want such infinitely immaterial things as your ancestors. (laughter) 
BENSON: Well my question was, explain the process used for maintenance, equipment repair, those sorts of thing. 
GRAYDON: Well I’ll tell you don’t put how dirty the library was. (laughter) It wasn’t very well maintained. It was in an old building, when I knew it and it was pretty sour. But I think they maintained the present building that was around Washington and Sumter, they maintained it pretty well. And it’s pretty good I think. I’m trying to think of the name of that man, he and his wife ran the parking lot, when they discovered that they didn’t have the elevator in the building. And I think it was $20,000 – $25,000 or something like that. 
COPP: Probably very expensive. 
GRAYDON: Yes, it was pretty expensive building. See, we hired a man at Mrs. Bostick’s say-so, that was named Angus C. McCoy. He came down here from Orange, Virginia, I’ve seen him since then but he’s dead now. But he was a very good librarian. And a very good building person and he knew all about putting in the central tier that – let’s see there was 1, 2, 3, 4, and (inaudible) he drew the plans for it and they had it made up and put it where it was. And he turned out to be a real good person at that. You have the same construction now, don’t you? Don’t you have a tier that goes up? 
COPP: A central core? 
GRAYDON: A central core, yes. That’s were all the bookshelves are. Because I think it is essential to have, frankly, in a library it’s essential to have open stacks if you can. Now some places you can’t do it. But I don’t remember anything that they stole. Now we had the example, now it wasn’t a theft, but Mr. Alex Salley had the two copies of one of the signers of the Declaration from South Carolina – there was Middleton and Rutledge and one fellow that lived up near Georgetown and he was later drowned in a boat accident [Thomas Lynch, Jr.] – anyway – he sold them for about $12,000. And people attacked him and said he had given away part of the heritage of the state – and he said he kept the library open for 2 or 3 years with that little money. That’s what he had to do. And I think that was alright. But maybe it wasn’t exactly the thing to do but he was a right – did you know him? 
BENSON: No. 
GRAYDON: Mrs. Bostick knew Alex Salley well. His house was down on College Street at Laurens. And he was really a –  
COPP: He was the first archivist for the state. And secretary of the historical society. 
GRAYDON: That’s right. And that’s really interconnected with the rest of what we’ve been talking about. If I have made Lucy Bostick nothing but a highly gowned Southern lady, I’ve failed. (laughter) She was really a hard-knocker, Lucy was. She was willing to go all out for the library. To get it going, to get it started. She didn’t do everything that was necessary because she didn’t live that long, but she certainly did a lot for the library system in Columbia. And she was a good friend incidentally, not that she saw her every day, but she was a good friend of Modjeska Simkins. Knew that Modjeska was very interested in libraries and things of that nature. And that’s necessary. And if I say one thing for whatever you transcribe, I want to say that the library is the heart of a community. In an intellectual and cultural way. And if you don’t have it, you don’t have it. Isn’t that right? 
COPP: That’s a wonderful way to say it. 
BENSON: That’s right. Excellent parting words. We certainly appreciate all of your thoughts. 
GRAYDON: Well if you run across anything and you need anything else, I’ll be at your service. 
BENSON: We’ll come back. 
GRAYDON: Because you all are doing the work that is the fulfillment of what I’ve wanted to see all of my life. I’m glad I have a few books in my library. I wonder if you all have this book over here? 
BENSON: Which one is this? 
GRAYDON: The one right there. Statistics of South Carolina. That’s Mills’ copy that goes with the Atlas. I think you have it don’t you. 
BENSON: Right. Yes. 
COPP: I use it all the time. 
GRAYDON: Oh well it’s a real good book. That’s why I brought it with me. Because if I want to see what they were doing in Lexington County 150 years ago I could look in that book right now and it could tell me. But it’s a damn good book. That’s a right interesting piece up there. Do you see that piece with the angel on it? It’s a chalice cover. It’s black. Well it was given to my father by a sculptor when they were doing finishing work down at the State House and I put it up there because I didn’t know where else to put it. I had it at my house and I brought it out here with me. You see who I have up on my windowsill don’t you? 
COPP: Yes, I see that gentleman. I know all three of those I think. 
GRAYDON: That’s Mahatma Gandhi, Napoleon, and Abraham Lincoln. 
COPP: That’s an interesting combination you have there. 
GRAYDON: That’s right. It’s not like you’d find at most people’s in Columbia. Mahatma Gandhi was picked up by me when I was living in India during the War. 
COPP: Oh you mean you did more than chief bartender? 
GRAYDON: Yes, I did some more than chief bartender. I was very lucky at the end of the War, I was in charge of 6,000 British, French, American, Dutch, and Belgian citizens. I had to figure out their passports. And I knew that when I started that passports of all people in Asia – they wouldn’t have done this in Europe – they burned them up just to get rid of them. So I asked the State Department for some help in getting these things all together, the back records, birth records, marriage records and anything else we could find. So they sent two men out there from the Department of State in Washington, this was after Roosevelt, Truman was President then, and so they sent these people out and they said, “Lieutenant Graydon, where are the records of these people?” and I said, “There are none.” “Well why did you send for us? That’s all we know how to do it to take records and make other records out of them.” And I said, “Well you all just get on the next plane and I will sign every passport and everything that has to be signed for these people because I am their agent. And if I’m going to jail it will be me, not you.” 
COPP: And did you sign them. 
GRAYDON: I didn’t find any of them, I just made them up. See, if a man told me he was an American citizen, I’d say, “Well what state where you born in?” And if he said he was born in North Dakota and I’d say, “Well, what’s the capitol of North Dakota?” and if he answered “Fargo” or even “Pierre” which is in South Dakota, I’d say, ”Well, you have satisfied me that you are an American citizen.” No German spy or Japanese would know what the capitol was of any cold areas. You have to be practical in life. 
BENSON: But you were born in Columbia? 
GRAYDON: Born in Columbia. On the corner of Lady and Pickens Street, right behind the Dunbar Funeral Home. But I’m not going to the Dunbar Funeral Home. I don’t believe in putting inert bodies in the ground to do nothing. So I’ve deemed my body for medical research. All this thing about spending $5,000 to $10,000 on people that can’t afford a Chevrolet automobile. Well I’ve enjoyed talking to you all. I’m sorry I wasn’t here the time before. 
[Cut in recording] 
COPP: The Bird’s Eye View. 
GRAYDON: Oh yes. Well you know where that came from? It’s a right interesting story. When I practiced law on Washington Street across the street from the old library, I was going to an office that was next door that belonged to someone by the name of Mary Gambrel Jenkins, she was a real estate person, and I said, “Mrs. Mary” – this was in 1946 or so – “Mrs. Mary, when you die I hope you leave me that map of Columbia. It’s the only one I’ve ever seen like it.” And she said, “Yes, I’ll be glad to leave it to you.” Well she did. She was run over by an automobile near where she lived, the 1700 block of Gervais Street. And she left it to me. All the ones that you see now that are around were copied from this one because I gave it to the people and said, make copies of it, give it to everybody, or sell it. Because I didn’t want to be the only one to have it. I love it. 
BENSON: It’s amazing how they could do that. They couldn’t get in a plane and look down. 
GRAYDON: No. They looked down usually out of a gas balloon or something like that. But it’s a pretty map. 
COPP: It’s very useful. 
GRAYDON: Oh it really is. You can locate all kinds of places in old Columbia. That why I say, nothing ought to be built in a public way, city, county or state, that’s not inside that original city. And that’s why the map is important. See in this book, here’s a map of the old city and a map of the city in 1935. And I’ve got one here, Tales of Columbia, that’s like that. 
COPP: I love showing this one to students because they’ll look and they’ll say, “That’s Sidney Park. Sidney Park is new. What’s it doing there?” 
GRAYDON: It’s called Finlay Park now. And I told Rab, “I don’t know if you and Kirk have discussed this or not, but I don’t think they ought to name anything for anybody unless they are dead.” And then on the other hand, Blanding was the one that selected the name of Albert Sydney Johnson, who Sydney Park was named for. See I have a lot of little bits of unimportant information. 
COPP: And someday some historian may want to know that. 
BENSON: Well thank you again, we appreciate it. 
GRAYDON: I appreciate you all coming out.  
 
End - Oral History Interview with Gus Graydon